We are celebrating 25 years this year as well. Two pastors kids who also met and married at Christian college in the late 90’s. We have our fair share of baggage. We have navigated this road our whole marriage as I was raised in a black sheep, liberal democrat Christian household and he was raised much more conservative evangelical. But the 2016-2022 social, political landscape, while raising 3 teenagers through a pandemic, brought all of our differences to the forefront. We had some fights. We cried. Our kids watched us fight about things we cared passionately about and then make up. One of our kids questioned their sexuality and went into a deep and scary depression....which really changed everything for us. Suddenly, the things we’d been told about “right parenting” and “right belief” didn’t square with what we were experiencing. Our beautiful, brilliant children were asking questions about the choices and cultures of churches their grandparents had built that we did not have good answers for. As I read your newsletter, I got choked up realizing how many of those things we did as a family and kind of figured out on our own. I am so proud of us. I’m so proud of our children. I’m so thankful to be raising them as thoughtful, intelligent humans who have compassion for those that feel “othered” by the church we were raised in. And though my husband and I still often disagree on the small stuff, we have found a path forward in our shared values - we both cannot quit Jesus. And the more we lean into the true Jesus - the goodness, the graciousness, the revolutionary truth and love of the real Jesus - the more we realize he’s it for us. And our relationship with our kids has become so much deeper, as we have let go of shame and guilt about their choices and we feel so much freedom to love them right where they are, for exactly who they are. Together, as their parents. And as a couple that also truly enjoys the people we have evolved to be. It feels like a hard fought miracle. We are well on our way to reconstruction and there is real joy in it!
Thanks, Sarah! My husband and I will be celebrating our 25th anniversary this spring and I have been thinking a lot about how we got here. We both hold such a different faith now than the one we initially received as children/teenagers. I think what has kept us connected through the many shifts that we've seen in our faith is that we trust one another in our individual journeys. I know he is living an honest and authentic life, and he knows the same about me. When I think back to our first date, I remember that part of our conversation included talking about a faith experience that was outside of our own and we both looked at and spoke of that experience with CURIOSITY. Curiosity has been such a helpful approach to new ideas. It keeps us open and engaged without needing to control the outcome. There is less judgement in curiosity. Looking back, I think this curiosity that popped up early on in our relationship has been helpful to us in our individual evolving faith.
Wow, this is so great and beautiful to read as I come up on one year of marriage! I (deconstructed, so-over-evangelicalism (used to be a missionary eek!), but so into the radical wonder of Jesus) married much later in life than you (31) to an older-than-me (39) progressive Catholic, firm in the Lord and gleefully open in much else (funny story, your bit in MAORT about the Pope really helped me understand my partner better).
As a person also with high neuro spicy needs (autism!), I really enjoyed your call-out there. I'm pre-ordering the book now – this was a delight. Thank you for writing through the journey – it has helped mine.
I don’t want to talk about my marriage (that is no more) BUT I LOVE YOURS. I got to meet your Brian at EF in October when I was talking to Troy and Tara and he walked up. I already knew he was a good man but he gave me a hug and he was sooooo kind and it is massively and blatantly obvious that he loves (and likes) you so so so deeply. I’m so glad your young young love was real and true and keeps getting better. ❤️❤️❤️
I’m currently in the thick of a huge storm between my husband and my deconstruction. I’ve deconstructed for 3+ years now and my husband is so far behind. Thank you for sharing these values--we most definitely don’t have the foundation of egalitarian marriage that you describe and I ache for a relationship like that.
Choosing each other over anything else can be so hard when it was the everything else you had been told you were marrying for! The calling, the gifting, the shared ministry opportunities, etc. Strip those away and some people find they don’t know (or like!) the person they married. They liked the ministry they married or the preacher they married, what if they barely knew the actual person? We felt lucky when we learned we liked each other even though what initially drew us was a lot of all those other identities. We couldn’t have imagined those parts of us would change but now that most of them have, we’re happy to still have each other on the other side!
I just wanted to throw out the offer that if anyone is in a partnership with someone who is atheist/agnostic/of a different faith than you, or are discerning whether you want or need to be with someone who shares your faith in a dating relationship, I’d love to talk. After dating people from several different faith backgrounds I’m now in a very happy partnership with someone who’s agnostic Jewish, and I’m a still mostly practicing/deconstructing (it’s complicated right now) Christian. It’s not the exact same conversation Sarah has graciously opened here, but it feels adjacent, and I know if can sometimes be hard to find people to talk to about interfaith partnerships.
What a delight to read your marriage story! Grateful for you sharing with us. My mantra is also “I choose you” over and over again these many years now. My Brian and I are in different places on the journey and I stopped when you said - “Always assign positive intent until proven otherwise.” THIS is what my love is doing and I didn’t quite have words for it. As I continue to press in, having my beloved trust me for good - this helps create the container that holds us.
Eagerly awaiting your book Sarah and cheering you on towards its birthday!
Oh the joy of listening to you read your words this lunch time. Just filled my heart up. In other periods of my life I would have shouted ‘amen’. Now I just sit here with a smile on my face and a nod on my head. But there was so much that just resonated with me in my own journey in my marriage and deconstruction. For me it started with my boss booking all the staff team at church to go to a Brian mclaren conference. Boy did he get a shock. It excited me so much I realised I could love Jesus but not really like the church. I could love Jesus and have many questions. I realised that there were other people like me out there. My boss and his boss were both more uncomfortable with the conference it wasn’t what they had expected but to me it was life. My husband’s journey has been different but he’s always given me space to be me and we have found slowness and gentleness to be keys. And oh that thing you said that you need others to talk to about your deconstruction is so key. Because some things he finds exciting I find triggering. It so nice to hear from you and your experience it makes me feel that we are not alone and there’s a community of people who have a shared experience not often talked about. Thank you
We are heading toward our 29th this year. Our deconstruction journey has been a mutual one. I can see God laying the groundwork for it years ago. Once my son came out as trans, we immediately embraced him but had to navigate some things. It took us about a year to really understand it and it was a big shove for us in our deconstruction. Combine that experience with a huge blow up in our marriage (no details need be shared here) and we understood the outcast, the alienated, the denigrated are all welcome. We understood formulas don't work and true healing comes only from tearing things down and rebuilding again.
I think RELEASE RELEASE RELEASE is the most helpful thing for us. I really try to give up my husband’s heart to God.
Also, in arguments, I have clearly stated my intention “I want peace and harmony in our marriage “ . It brings immediate perspective and defuses the competition 💜
I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma so it made me smile to read that you meet at ORU!! You've come a long way in your evolving faith!! (And so have I). I could resonate with a lot if what you shared--what has helped you both to feel safe with each other along the way as you change, grow, deconstruct, etc. We were in the mission field and similarly believed our marriage was more important than ministry. And it cost us "positions" and ladder climbing. But our marriage matters more. (And Yes we have needed lots of therapy... well, I have anyway!!) thanks for sharing your story with us!!
Also, I read Jesus Feminist while my now-husband and I were dating and attending Hudson University. I remember coming across the passage about Jesus being the head not us and it resonating so much that I nervously showed it to my mom. She immediately shot it down as unrealistic and stated that when push came to shove I would have to submit to my husband. Now, our marriage is still a baby at 5 years old but I am so grateful I read your words and didn't take her advice back then.
You have discovered beautiful gems within yourself and with your marriage! ❤️🥰.
I have been married for 45 years. Our marriage foundation rested on our faith in Jesus,the little Baptist church where we met and married, and our love for each other. Our ideas of all three have definitely evolved and changed, and I know I am in a deconstruction phase with my church ideas, and no, we are not on the same page. But we continue on.
In good times and bad, we have done what you did. We chose each other. And when we have done so, that is the closest I have ever been to the Jesus I truly love.
In the first 15 years of our marriage, I thought I needed to be the super Christian wife and mom. 🤦🏽♀️. I feared that if I couldn’t keep myself in line, as well as my 3 children, my husband would have every right to walk away. I literally got to the point of wondering if my family would be better without me. Thankfully I got help from friends, a priest (we had moved to an Episcopal church -the beginning of my expanded view of Christianity), and finally a good counselor.
When I was ready, I invited my husband to counseling. I confessed every mean and hurtful thing I had done to our children, and how I couldn’t live up to the standard I thought I was supposed to have of super woman. I feared this would be the end of us and I was braced for that. Instead, he listened. As we walked out of the counselor’s office, he took my hand. He chose me! In that moment he was who Jesus is. He didn’t leave. He accepted me.
The expectations I had laid on myself were not laid on me by him. I could unpack those and leave them behind. 😊. Together, we figured out new ways to help our family move through life. Never perfect, not even close, but definitely better, with much more talking and working it out together.
Are their rough patches and unexpected turns and unchanged ideas? Absolutely. But we have chosen each other.
One tip that helped us in the early times was walking. Luckily our kids were just old enough that we could leave them for a half hour or hour and go for a walk. I liked walking for a couple of reasons. 1. You walk in the same direction. It’s kind of a symbol of what you want to do in your life together. 2. You don’t have to look at each other all the time. When you sit across from each other you see every facial expression. During rough times, this can overwhelm and cause you to lose your courage, at least for me. As the woman in an originally patriarchal-based marriage, it was important to walk and talk as partners. Somehow it helped.
One more thing. Include your kids. Have family chats. Let them talk, and be sure to listen as best you can. I am now a grandma, and I love how my two year old grandson is allowed to enter into conversation. In particular, when he has a tantrum, mom or dad will ask him, “Would you like to talk about it?” And so far, he always says, “Uh huh.” He may not have all the words he needs, but he is listened to, and together they work it out. ❤️. Mom and Dad and Grandma and Grandpa choose him. ❤️❤️❤️❤️.
Thank you for sharing what you have learned and allowing me an opportunity to remember and share a little of my journey. 😘
We are celebrating 25 years this year as well. Two pastors kids who also met and married at Christian college in the late 90’s. We have our fair share of baggage. We have navigated this road our whole marriage as I was raised in a black sheep, liberal democrat Christian household and he was raised much more conservative evangelical. But the 2016-2022 social, political landscape, while raising 3 teenagers through a pandemic, brought all of our differences to the forefront. We had some fights. We cried. Our kids watched us fight about things we cared passionately about and then make up. One of our kids questioned their sexuality and went into a deep and scary depression....which really changed everything for us. Suddenly, the things we’d been told about “right parenting” and “right belief” didn’t square with what we were experiencing. Our beautiful, brilliant children were asking questions about the choices and cultures of churches their grandparents had built that we did not have good answers for. As I read your newsletter, I got choked up realizing how many of those things we did as a family and kind of figured out on our own. I am so proud of us. I’m so proud of our children. I’m so thankful to be raising them as thoughtful, intelligent humans who have compassion for those that feel “othered” by the church we were raised in. And though my husband and I still often disagree on the small stuff, we have found a path forward in our shared values - we both cannot quit Jesus. And the more we lean into the true Jesus - the goodness, the graciousness, the revolutionary truth and love of the real Jesus - the more we realize he’s it for us. And our relationship with our kids has become so much deeper, as we have let go of shame and guilt about their choices and we feel so much freedom to love them right where they are, for exactly who they are. Together, as their parents. And as a couple that also truly enjoys the people we have evolved to be. It feels like a hard fought miracle. We are well on our way to reconstruction and there is real joy in it!
Thanks, Sarah! My husband and I will be celebrating our 25th anniversary this spring and I have been thinking a lot about how we got here. We both hold such a different faith now than the one we initially received as children/teenagers. I think what has kept us connected through the many shifts that we've seen in our faith is that we trust one another in our individual journeys. I know he is living an honest and authentic life, and he knows the same about me. When I think back to our first date, I remember that part of our conversation included talking about a faith experience that was outside of our own and we both looked at and spoke of that experience with CURIOSITY. Curiosity has been such a helpful approach to new ideas. It keeps us open and engaged without needing to control the outcome. There is less judgement in curiosity. Looking back, I think this curiosity that popped up early on in our relationship has been helpful to us in our individual evolving faith.
Wow, this is so great and beautiful to read as I come up on one year of marriage! I (deconstructed, so-over-evangelicalism (used to be a missionary eek!), but so into the radical wonder of Jesus) married much later in life than you (31) to an older-than-me (39) progressive Catholic, firm in the Lord and gleefully open in much else (funny story, your bit in MAORT about the Pope really helped me understand my partner better).
As a person also with high neuro spicy needs (autism!), I really enjoyed your call-out there. I'm pre-ordering the book now – this was a delight. Thank you for writing through the journey – it has helped mine.
I don’t want to talk about my marriage (that is no more) BUT I LOVE YOURS. I got to meet your Brian at EF in October when I was talking to Troy and Tara and he walked up. I already knew he was a good man but he gave me a hug and he was sooooo kind and it is massively and blatantly obvious that he loves (and likes) you so so so deeply. I’m so glad your young young love was real and true and keeps getting better. ❤️❤️❤️
A little side note that I REALLY want to know all the rest of your family mantras/ affirmations!
I’m currently in the thick of a huge storm between my husband and my deconstruction. I’ve deconstructed for 3+ years now and my husband is so far behind. Thank you for sharing these values--we most definitely don’t have the foundation of egalitarian marriage that you describe and I ache for a relationship like that.
Choosing each other over anything else can be so hard when it was the everything else you had been told you were marrying for! The calling, the gifting, the shared ministry opportunities, etc. Strip those away and some people find they don’t know (or like!) the person they married. They liked the ministry they married or the preacher they married, what if they barely knew the actual person? We felt lucky when we learned we liked each other even though what initially drew us was a lot of all those other identities. We couldn’t have imagined those parts of us would change but now that most of them have, we’re happy to still have each other on the other side!
I just wanted to throw out the offer that if anyone is in a partnership with someone who is atheist/agnostic/of a different faith than you, or are discerning whether you want or need to be with someone who shares your faith in a dating relationship, I’d love to talk. After dating people from several different faith backgrounds I’m now in a very happy partnership with someone who’s agnostic Jewish, and I’m a still mostly practicing/deconstructing (it’s complicated right now) Christian. It’s not the exact same conversation Sarah has graciously opened here, but it feels adjacent, and I know if can sometimes be hard to find people to talk to about interfaith partnerships.
What a delight to read your marriage story! Grateful for you sharing with us. My mantra is also “I choose you” over and over again these many years now. My Brian and I are in different places on the journey and I stopped when you said - “Always assign positive intent until proven otherwise.” THIS is what my love is doing and I didn’t quite have words for it. As I continue to press in, having my beloved trust me for good - this helps create the container that holds us.
Eagerly awaiting your book Sarah and cheering you on towards its birthday!
Oh the joy of listening to you read your words this lunch time. Just filled my heart up. In other periods of my life I would have shouted ‘amen’. Now I just sit here with a smile on my face and a nod on my head. But there was so much that just resonated with me in my own journey in my marriage and deconstruction. For me it started with my boss booking all the staff team at church to go to a Brian mclaren conference. Boy did he get a shock. It excited me so much I realised I could love Jesus but not really like the church. I could love Jesus and have many questions. I realised that there were other people like me out there. My boss and his boss were both more uncomfortable with the conference it wasn’t what they had expected but to me it was life. My husband’s journey has been different but he’s always given me space to be me and we have found slowness and gentleness to be keys. And oh that thing you said that you need others to talk to about your deconstruction is so key. Because some things he finds exciting I find triggering. It so nice to hear from you and your experience it makes me feel that we are not alone and there’s a community of people who have a shared experience not often talked about. Thank you
We are heading toward our 29th this year. Our deconstruction journey has been a mutual one. I can see God laying the groundwork for it years ago. Once my son came out as trans, we immediately embraced him but had to navigate some things. It took us about a year to really understand it and it was a big shove for us in our deconstruction. Combine that experience with a huge blow up in our marriage (no details need be shared here) and we understood the outcast, the alienated, the denigrated are all welcome. We understood formulas don't work and true healing comes only from tearing things down and rebuilding again.
I, too have been married almost 25 years ! 😅🔥❤️
I think RELEASE RELEASE RELEASE is the most helpful thing for us. I really try to give up my husband’s heart to God.
Also, in arguments, I have clearly stated my intention “I want peace and harmony in our marriage “ . It brings immediate perspective and defuses the competition 💜
I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma so it made me smile to read that you meet at ORU!! You've come a long way in your evolving faith!! (And so have I). I could resonate with a lot if what you shared--what has helped you both to feel safe with each other along the way as you change, grow, deconstruct, etc. We were in the mission field and similarly believed our marriage was more important than ministry. And it cost us "positions" and ladder climbing. But our marriage matters more. (And Yes we have needed lots of therapy... well, I have anyway!!) thanks for sharing your story with us!!
Also, I read Jesus Feminist while my now-husband and I were dating and attending Hudson University. I remember coming across the passage about Jesus being the head not us and it resonating so much that I nervously showed it to my mom. She immediately shot it down as unrealistic and stated that when push came to shove I would have to submit to my husband. Now, our marriage is still a baby at 5 years old but I am so grateful I read your words and didn't take her advice back then.
It’s footnote 7 for me! 😂😬
You have discovered beautiful gems within yourself and with your marriage! ❤️🥰.
I have been married for 45 years. Our marriage foundation rested on our faith in Jesus,the little Baptist church where we met and married, and our love for each other. Our ideas of all three have definitely evolved and changed, and I know I am in a deconstruction phase with my church ideas, and no, we are not on the same page. But we continue on.
In good times and bad, we have done what you did. We chose each other. And when we have done so, that is the closest I have ever been to the Jesus I truly love.
In the first 15 years of our marriage, I thought I needed to be the super Christian wife and mom. 🤦🏽♀️. I feared that if I couldn’t keep myself in line, as well as my 3 children, my husband would have every right to walk away. I literally got to the point of wondering if my family would be better without me. Thankfully I got help from friends, a priest (we had moved to an Episcopal church -the beginning of my expanded view of Christianity), and finally a good counselor.
When I was ready, I invited my husband to counseling. I confessed every mean and hurtful thing I had done to our children, and how I couldn’t live up to the standard I thought I was supposed to have of super woman. I feared this would be the end of us and I was braced for that. Instead, he listened. As we walked out of the counselor’s office, he took my hand. He chose me! In that moment he was who Jesus is. He didn’t leave. He accepted me.
The expectations I had laid on myself were not laid on me by him. I could unpack those and leave them behind. 😊. Together, we figured out new ways to help our family move through life. Never perfect, not even close, but definitely better, with much more talking and working it out together.
Are their rough patches and unexpected turns and unchanged ideas? Absolutely. But we have chosen each other.
One tip that helped us in the early times was walking. Luckily our kids were just old enough that we could leave them for a half hour or hour and go for a walk. I liked walking for a couple of reasons. 1. You walk in the same direction. It’s kind of a symbol of what you want to do in your life together. 2. You don’t have to look at each other all the time. When you sit across from each other you see every facial expression. During rough times, this can overwhelm and cause you to lose your courage, at least for me. As the woman in an originally patriarchal-based marriage, it was important to walk and talk as partners. Somehow it helped.
One more thing. Include your kids. Have family chats. Let them talk, and be sure to listen as best you can. I am now a grandma, and I love how my two year old grandson is allowed to enter into conversation. In particular, when he has a tantrum, mom or dad will ask him, “Would you like to talk about it?” And so far, he always says, “Uh huh.” He may not have all the words he needs, but he is listened to, and together they work it out. ❤️. Mom and Dad and Grandma and Grandpa choose him. ❤️❤️❤️❤️.
Thank you for sharing what you have learned and allowing me an opportunity to remember and share a little of my journey. 😘